I need help locking both pages from further edit. I have provided proof that both names are the offical name of the war in Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny. However, certain users keep changing back to the old, mistaken name and did not provide any evidence that any character in both series said 'Bloody Valentine War' or something similar, other than saying a character did. Please help or offer an alternative to this problem. Thanks for your time.
Thanks, the HG force Impulse model kit may be released by then and we will see if they will use the term 'Second EA-PLANT War' to describe the war in GSD and/or even 'First EA-PLANT War' to describe the war in GS.
Also, someone might want to start a discussion on the Talk page (assuming there isn't a discussion already going on that is). Ideally, we would want most users or editors working on a topic to agree on something, maybe come to a consensus and present arguments/evidence and all that stuff.
First off, I may not fully understand what is going on, but I am trying to see if I can help get to the bottom of it.
redcrimson300, who is my cousin in the real world, has brought this to my attention mainly because in the recent blocking of editing of the "war" pages, I will refer to them as that as it seems that is what everyone is arguing about, his access in general to the site, not just ability to edit, has not been working. I do not know if in the progress of this discussion the user he was debating with had him banned from the site (which I hope is not the case seeing as he has not recived any notice of ban in his email and if so I do not think it was warrented).
Either way I have discussed with him and read the above post by sonicSP, and am proposing a compromise.
When this month that sonicsp has proposed has passed, depending on what zeph08 has said about the HG Impulse, that can be decided what the name of the "wars" shall be.
I honestly think it should be put to a vote, but for continued access to the site redcrimson300 has agreed to leave the names as is for fear of being banned, if he has not already been.
However, he has pointed out that it does not seem fair to lock down the pages completly to the point where no one can edit the inner details of the timeline. The main page says that Gundam Wiki is a site that ANYONE can edit. If the admins think that the name of the "wars" should stay as is then they should perhaps try to just lock down the title section of it. Both redcrimson and another friend of mine tried to add further details to the "war" pages a while back, as in adding in dates of certain events instead of just stating one date and then a paragraph that described everything that happened over the next month or so. The info they entered came from the actual gundam seed manga, so if the issue is wanting only OFFICAL data on the wiki, I really dont think that the manga can be wrong since it came from the source.
One month and if the Impulse info comes back as EA-PLANT war, it should stay that way, and make the page editable again for the public to add the details they feel are needed, as zeph08 has exersiced that right in wanting to change the titles to what he feels is the correct name. If redcrimson300 should change the titles of the "wars" again, well then you have every right to ban him if you wish, but not if he just wants to add "official dates" or other similar data.
This is the most time I've spent on this wiki since joining it years ago, I hope my time was well spent in hoping this is a reasonable compromise for everyone.
Look, I'm tell you you guys won, redcrimson300 gives up. Honestly I'm pretty sure its called by his terms as well but that's not the point here. He agrees to not change the title anymore if it'll make everyone happy.
I'm asking of sonicSP to in a month to either lock the title name or allow the edit function again so other people can add "official dates" and other "official data", cause that seems to be what zeph08 cares about, and that you all can go ahead and ban him if he tries to change it back to bloody valentine war again, what more do you want.
I requested for a lock down on the page as i remember that was also done when there was an edit war over the name 'Loran Cehack' / 'Rolan Cehack'. I'm not sure if the title section can be locked without affecting the other parts of the page. In any case, even if the 'title section' can be lock down, it is possible an edit war can erupt over the text...
As i just stated in Gaeaman788's wall, this is the info based on which i made the edit ' The japanese term used is '第1次連合.プラント大戦' (the dot should be hanging midway, but i dont know how to do that...). '連合' means 'Earth Allance' and since it is referred to interchangeably as 'EA' or 'Alliance', i go with 'EA' and stated that the term 'Alliance' can be used alternatively when i first renamed the page. This term can be found at the end of the passage (from HG Revive Freedom manual) in image 17 on this webpage: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10329399/10/0/1For MG Strike Rouge Ootori, the term can be found in the box labelled 'Story Guide' and in the first sentence of that box. The box is in the image 15 on this webpage: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10232016k/50/1'
Just curious, what happen if Force Impulse manual did not use the terms? There is no guarantee that they will use First/Second EA-PLANT War as the HG Revive (?) Strike, Strike Rouge and MG Freedom Ver2, did not use the terms. They just call it 'war' or something simple, no fancy name (no 'Bloody Valentine War' either).
I have no objections to unlocking the page, if the title remains untouched and there is no mention of 'bloody valentine war' in whatever FACTS/OFFICAL INFO people want to add, the inclusion of 'bloody valentine war' may confuse readers. Having said that i am ok if a line is added somewhere in the page to denote that fans used 'Bloody Valentine War' before the offical term came around.
Personally, i found it ludicrous that just because a new term came up that was not used before in the show, someone would immediately call it a mistake (even if the term is mentioned twice now). I mean model kit manuals and other data books have always contained new info not revealed in the show (yes, even many years later), and these new info may/may not be widely spread. Besides, there is nothing in show to contradict that the new term is wrong (other than redcrimson300's unsupported claim, which could have been based on a FAN SUB).
In the end, i will just say this, since i have bring up this matter to the mods, i will let the mods decide what is appropriate.
This seem to be an issue between a strict, word for word translation or a slightly loose translation. Either way, whether is it EA or Alliance it is refering to the same entity. I prefer the loose translation simply because it is faster to type. You can change it to Alliance if you want.
I don't know much about Seed, so I can't contribute much to the discussion but if you guys need admin stuff for something (lock/unlock/whatever) after coming into a consensus, just ring me up here. Nothing is irreversible so anything can be fixed up later if needed even if the page is locked for now.
If it's a matter of semantics where there is a good case for both, we could always vote on it worst comes to worst.
Just my two cents on a topic I'm not knowledgable about, but if the issue is just calling the Earth Alliance part of a war name, why not just go with the full official name? It is less likely to be wrong even if some sources does use a shortened version to refer to the name.
We could then put in all the known alternative names stated in sources in the beginning of the article in parenthesis or something. That's sort of how we do it for mobile suits with a nickname, even if the nickname is used in-universe by characters/sources.
I love when people want to change official info with no basis whatsoever besides their autism. Just go with 1st Alliance-Plant War(until an official English name appears, if ever), and lock the page...
Bummer, i been using 'EA' for so long, that i forgot it is also a fan nick. As SonicSP suggested, having the war as 'First Earth Alliance-PLANT War' may be a better idea (I dont see much chance of the official english name appearing...). With this new development, SonicSP, is it possible to shorten/change the page lock to one week?
The Force Impulse manual was released on http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10382548. No mention of 'Second Earth Alliance-PLANT War' though, they just call it a war. Not really surprised by this as HG revive (?) Strike and Strike Rouge manual also did not use the term 'First Earth Alliance-PLANT War'.
I also realized that '第1次連合.プラント大戦' can be translated as 'Earth Alliance (or Alliance)-PLANT War I' as WWI in japanese is '第一次世界大戦'.
For what it is worth, the Gundam Seed Cosmic Era Mechanics & World book that was publised in 2012 lists the following: 1st Union & P.L.A.N.T. War (sic). Union, for some odd reason, has stuck with Japan since the early days of SEED material being published. As for Bloody Valentine, I believe the incident was just refered to as "The Bloody Valentine". Later publications list is as the "Bloody Valentine Incident". The Japanese wiki has it listed as "Bloody Valentine War" for some odd reason, but even with 戦争 attached to the Japanese name nothing ever comes up. Strange.
Good to see that EA is used in an official webpage. However, since i have already started changing the name to 'First Alliance-PLANT War', for consistency sake, i will just continue.
So the book put the name in English? That's interesting. If i'm not mistaken, 連合 can be translated as alliance or union. The writers of the english name may not have done sufficent checking...Wouldnt be the first time.
I wonder if the appearance of 'Bloody Valentine War' in the japanese wiki is because the editor there saw the term used among english fan webpages, or perhaps heard it from an english friend. There is no souce for that in japanese wiki, so i'm inclined to just dismiss it. Doesnt help it didnt turn up in Deackychu's further searches.
I wouldn't exactly rely on the English Gundam.info page as a source of official naming. They're ripe with inconsistencies and somewhat stilted/awkward translation. Plus, names change from post to post.
There was never anything wrong with EA being used in the first place... it is as you said a logical abbreviation. It's no different than the Earth Federation Forces being shortened to EFF or the United Nations Earth showing up as UNE. And as I said, I would highly caution utilizing what Gundam.info publishes. They're merely a portal for a reason. If they were to be classified as "official" then the RX-78[N] Gundam would still be listed as "limited" for the name as opposed to "Local Type" which it was changed to later on.
EA isn't a typo, mistranslation or intentionally wacky translation to give an exotic feel, it is a logical abbreviation of Earth Alliance used by fans and now made official.
I think I have right to be cautious about it. I mean, while we never learn what it stand for, there's a mobile suit with abbreviation name called GuAIZ. Who said Earth Allaiance can't be abbreviate as EaA or something like that?
What else could EA mean in the context of SEED Destiny Astray B?
If they chose to abbreviate it as EaA as well then that just further proves my point. "Earth Alliance" has many official synonyms and abbreviations and now we have verification that EA and OMNI are among them.
Deackychu wrote: There was never anything wrong with EA being used in the first place... it is as you said a logical abbreviation. It's no different than the Earth Federation Forces being shortened to EFF or the United Nations Earth showing up as UNE. And as I said, I would highly caution utilizing what Gundam.info publishes. They're merely a portal for a reason. If they were to be classified as "official" then the RX-78[N] Gundam would still be listed as "limited" for the name as opposed to "Local Type" which it was changed to later on.
That just means both are valid but at different times, unless there's a statement. I'm not saying "EA" is a replacement for "Alliance" for vice versa, both are valid is what I'm saying. "EA" is a valid abbreviation of Earth Alliance in addition to "Alliance" and "OMNI".
Dude, I don't object anything. My point in previous post is that just because something is logical "alone" doesn't mean it's "valid". We've seen too many "logically correct" junk already, remember the infamous Punishment Gundam? The idea behind that thing does make sense in term of logic, doesn't mean it's something worth to include on this wiki at all.
You found a citable source now so it's well and good (even if I still like calling it Alliance more).