Talk: GNR-001E GN Arms Type-E

Keep or Delete?

Guys, GN Arms info has always been kept tight within the original page, but HaroSan created 2 pages about the sub-types. So what do you guys think? I honestly feel the original page is enough, but if you want to expand more about them, I have no problems keep the page around either. However for me, delete! Your opinions gentlemen.

Wasabi 17:25, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I'm fine either way. Its not like we have a space limit, on the wikia, to work with ?

~ Azkaiel 22:06, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Totally, we could only make seven pages of the same thing (Which hopefully we won't.) and still continue whatever the hell we're doing here.

- The Phantom Impact 22:59, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

That's my concern, because originally, the Gundams and all directly related subjects were compacted into single pages, but then editors wanted more expansion. Now, even if there's a tiny change in naming, suddenly there's a new page. The best example has to be 00 7-Sword and 00 7-Sword G. I mean the real difference is just that sword, but it just had to be expanded. You guys are right, we have no limit and we can make as many as we want, but i'm starting to feel it's getting excessive. Since you guys are fine with it, very well, it stands.

Wasabi 00:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, detail detail detail. Everyone just craves the detail.

- The Phantom Impact 02:26, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

As long as its not a duplicate or non-canon article, it should be fine, i think...

~ Azkaiel 05:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Need Clarification

Guys: Behind the GN Swords and its GN Guns are a pair of clamps (at least that's how I define it). They can fold outwards, but I'm not entirely sure what it does. It's featured in the Gunpla model...I wouldn't actually consider that shielding nor a weapon since it's so thin and it wasn't really used in the anime either. What do you guys think it actually does? If you guys know, please tell me. I'm working to improve this page, thanks! Taikage (talk) 10:29, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean the blades themselves fold out? I'm not seeing what part you're talking aboutGaeaman788 (talk) 22:04, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Oh wait, you mean the swords fold out, those look like a pair of wing stablilzer things, not clamps Gaeaman788 (talk) 22:06, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, few things.

1. Where does it say that the engineers made the Assault Containers for the actual function of entering/re-entering the atmosphere? If the Gundams with GN Fields can enter the atmosphere, I am sure the GN Armours can do the same.
2. I don't know what's the problem with calling "Large GN Sword" and "Large GN Cannon". Never saw the additional "-Size" as needed.
3. The manuals and official site called the forms as "GN Arms Mode" (for the fighter) and "GN Armor Mode" (combined form).

--Bronx01 (talk|contribs) 22:43, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

The Large-Size-part was unfortunately clarified through the gunpla box. If you take a look at the gallery, under the gunpla pics, you'll see labeled box that had this crappy naming scheme. If you want to change it, I'm not gonna object, but I just used what was listed on that box as a reference. If there's another article or paper that can counter my entries, I'm all for it since I don't like the scheme either.

As for that clamp, after further examination, it was a custom modified gunpla model that had it. I thought I saw it in both official and customized version, but after reviewing through many pics and double-checking the anime, I can confirm there's none; I'm gonna remove that piece out. My apologies on that part.

For the GN Arms, there wasn't a single scene in which the units can use the GN Field in its fighter form, only in MA mode in both E and D. Yes, it's true that the GN Field enabled Gundams can perform atmospheric re-entry, but both Dynames and Exia are different. Neither of them have GN Fields and they can only go back and forth between Earth and space through a Linear Train ride. The anime also made it clear that the Assault Containers were meant to provide atmospheric exits without the need for a train ride back.

In another note, while I do appreciate the attention needed to help make a good page, there's still a bunch of pages that could use some re-vamping and correcting. The only time I ever see you guys get enthusiastic is when I'm editing something. Elsewhere, about the CB Shuttles, I refuse to believe the CB Shuttle is called a "Universal Skiff". Does anyone have an official name? If not, then I'm gonna stick it out with CB Shuttle. Anything else? Taikage (talk) 06:53, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

Does anybody remember which episodes mention that the Assasult Containers were made for re-entry? It's been awhile since I've watched the series. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 17:20, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

It was 22 of season 1, Lasse says that he'll do a atmospheric test of the GN Arms...even though he's in the Assault Container.? Gaeaman788 (talk) 17:30, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

I see about the "-sized" part. I only saw the Japanese text, and I know the Reborns Gundam used the characters for "Large-Sized" and it was translated to only "Large" (Large GN Beam Sabers, Large GN Fin Fangs etc). Add the translation in GundamInfo Youtube video. But let's stick to the Gunpla name for consistency.

About the atmospheric re-entry, what I want to say is that, while the Assault Container has that capability, it does not mean it was created for that purpose (Unless it was stated outright). The episode only says the Assault Container has atmospheric escape capabilities. There's the problem of causation in what was being claimed here (or how it was written in the article).

--Bronx01 (talk|contribs) 18:39, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

The Assault Container is meant to help Exia and GN Arms handle things it usually can't, mostly in super heavy combat situations. If I made it sound like it was meant for the simple purpose of being a transport, that wasn't my intent. After all, I'm still figuring how to make a complete description of GN Arms. However, GN Arms is also tied to the Assault Container since CB engineers designed them to fit together. I will halt editing for now, but I would like some suggests what I should write because I'm still re-wording things here and there.

Also, about the CBS-68 Euclides page, I noticed the ending part was removed. I presumed people weren't happy with it and that's fine, but there's no conclusion to the page. I was gonna add in how the ship was retired and the Karels now over-take its duties for CB operations and repairs and maintenance. Any objections?

Taikage (talk) 19:16, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

In regards to mentioning that the GN Armor (or whatever it is that has the GN Field, since we're still not clear on that) has atmospheric re-entering capability, I think we should mention that it has the ability to re-enter the atmosphere rather than saying outright the engineers designed it for that purpose specifically since we don't know the engineers main intentions when they designed it, but we can at least safely say that it can do it because we know it has the GN Field capability. Lasse's line helps a bit, even if he was in the wrong vehicle. Essentially, I'm agreeing with what Bronx is saying in his last post about causation. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 22:01, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

About GN Arms & Assault Container

Guys: What do you guys think the Assault Container is about? For me, it's a heavily armed transport, a flying tank that can go in and out of Earth. It's something the GN Arms can't do (my opinion). Do you have any other sort of suggestions what the unit is about or feel that's missing? What about the GN Arms and its relationship with the Assault Container? Why do you think the Assault Container was made when they have a GN Arms? As I work around to figure a proper article, there's been debate already, that's why I want to have something more definitive to work on. As for what's already written above, I'll take your words into consideration and try to work around it. Thanks guys.

Taikage (talk) 20:26, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Uhhmmm, I know Ptolemy used one as its weapon in the last episode of Season 1. While it store things, it also provide armament for the ship. --Bronx01 (talk|contribs) 21:56, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Here's a question, how did both the GN Arms Type E and Exia fit inside the Container? Though Lasse said he was doing atmospheric testing on the GN Arms, he used the Assault Container on Earth, which was powered by the GN Arms. An even bigger question is why not arm Ptolemy with four Assault Containers. The deeper we go the more plotholes this raises that we can't seem to fill.Gaeaman788 (talk) 00:38, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Hhhhmmm...

1. They just fit like that. The Assault container should be just like the ordinary ones.
2. We'll never know why he never used it. Spur of the moment? And after that encounter with al-Saachez they were recalled immediately, so Lasse was not able to test it after that.
3. What I remember is that the Ptolemy was not made to be combat capable by itself. That weakness was made apparent early on, so I do think it was intended.

--Bronx01 (talk|contribs) 02:15, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

The GN Arms appear to be specifically designed for Exia and Dynames, which is more similar to each other physically than Kyrios or Virtue/Nadleeh. I never made an analysis of whether Kyrios/Virtue could fit but I' just randomly assuming they can for now. This would theoretically be one of the reasons why they might want to make one since it might basically be usable with any 3rd Generation Gundam, unlike the GN Arms, Tail Booster and the Virtue Armor, which has specific compatabilities.

I really can't remember whether we actually saw the AC's cockpit but it would be weird not to have one for such a vehicle (I always assume Lasse was in the GN Arms'). In theory, an AC should be able to carry a Gundam, a GN Arms as well as itself. So in battle an AC Battle Unit might be able to split into three separate mobile weapons with three separate pilots and each wreck chaos on its own. And if the particles on the AC and the GN Arms both run low, theoretically both Exia and the GN Arms can dock into the AC and recharge all three units can share the single GN Drive particle stream again. If you take the above scenario and replace the GN Arms with another Assault Container, you'll have a hard time recharging both Containers without bringing an extra Gundam into the equation, so a GN Arms might be a slightly smaller Assault Container that's dockable with an actual Assault Container if you will. We also know that the GN Arms have its roots in mobile suit equipment since it was developed from the Avalanche'.

There's also the ability to penetrate GN Fields. The GN Armor Type E can do so but a regular Assault Container can't (I think it did so against the Alvatore IIRC). One might question the value of the GN Arms' oversized melee weapons in actual battle compared to the Type D's more standard range armaments but GN Field penetration would be one of the positives, so in some situations that would be useful. There's also the possibility that the GN Arms actually connected to the limbs Gundam's limbs might mean it has slightly better mobility but its hard to prove or say one way or another.

Not sure whether there's an actual relationship between the GN Arms and the Assault Container. There hasn't been any official info that says so and its hard to tell any relationship without a designation. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 05:10, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'm gonna process your answers over the weekend. The meantime, don't take off the editing sign until it's finally finished. Also, I have a friend who works in military engineering, I'll get his advice into this matter since he makes a living off it. I'll get his opinion and have you guys go over it. Though in such cases, it might be an educated guesses. Is that okay with you guys?

Taikage (talk) 08:28, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Any educated guesses should probably be written in speculative language. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 16:55, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, if you go back and watch episode 23 of S1 (the one where Lockon dies), right after Lockon chases Ali through the asteroids, Setsuna and Lasse arrive somewhere in space with the Assault Container. The back part detaches the GN Arms, and Exia is also inside of it.Gaeaman788 (talk) 04:21, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

I recall that moment but I'm a bit confused about what you're getting at. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 05:26, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

The AC can carry both the GN Arms and a single mobile suit. The AC I think has to be propelled by a GN Arms unit as well as powered by either Exia or Dynames. I believe the 2nd AC that was attached to the Ptolemy was using Dynames' drive. Though all are questions are most likely going unansweredGaeaman788 (talk) 18:29, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't Lasse used the AC when he attacked Zwei on Earth? Wasn't it lacking a GN Drive then? (albeit it didn't have much juice either) I've always thought that he was using the GN Arms all this time in that scene but I think someone above mentioned that it was the AC. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 08:19, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

To clarify things a bit, the Assault Container (AC) was docked with the GN Arms and Exia into a singular form when it left for Earth due to Setsuna's personal side-quest. During Throne Zwei Vs Exia, Lasse was piloting the Assault Container (its seating apparently is connected with the GN Arms to switch over when needed to) and provided some fire coverage for Exia during the fight. If you saw the final seconds, it will show the Assault Container hovering around Exia after it used Trans-Am the first time; not one time did GN Arms E revealed itself. After Exia chased away Zwei, the Assault Container returned everyone back into space. To save time during UN Forces VS Ptolemy Team, Exia used Trans-Am to make it in time to see the end of Lockon Stratos. In another scene, Lockon's supposed AC was refitted to utilize Dynames' GN Drive (since Dynames is out of commission) and was docked on the Ptolemy to be its mobile weapons platform. Later, the AC was used to take on the Alvatore and was destroyed.

During all those battles GN Arms never once executed GN Field in its fighter form; it highly suggests it's a feature only available in MA mode since both Gundams were only seen able to use it after docking with their respective GN Arms. This is why I said it couldn't have entered to Earth. As for the other parts of the query, I've been asking Nkuzmik for some help since he has engineering expertise; he's been busy, so please be patient for its completion.

Taikage (talk) 12:07, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Though I wouldn't presume that there's some way to switch from piloting the GN Arms to the Container. For all we know he might still have been in the GN Arms. And we also can't come to the definitive conclusion that the GN Arms GN Field only works when its in GN Armor mode (Though it does make sense). Gaeaman788 (talk) 17:12, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

If you re-watch the final episodes of season 1, the GN Arms is a closed-space cockpit like a fighter would be. However, the AC's helm is a bright-yellowish background and spacious. During the final episode, AC VS Alvatore, Lasse is seen piloting from the AC's controls, but then pulled a switch to lower himself back into the GN Arms before the ship was scuttled during the battle. That's as definitive as you can get about GN Arms and the AC's helm are connected with each other's helm to switch the pilot back and forth during combat.

Taikage (talk) 02:12, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I find this discussion on the GN Arms' GN Field to be pretty interesting. On one hand, we pretty much know that the GN Field generators are onboard it, because Exia and Dynames don't have that ability period. On the other hand, we haven't seen it use the Field solo.

Currently I'm of the opinion that the sample size of the GN Arms solo action and it's lack of GN Field usage in these scenes are too small to be sure that it can't definitively use the GN Field solo though I also agree that it's not likely an ability of can use often. I think one precedent that makes me believe this is Kyrios, since even though it had that ability by default for the entire series, it's only usage in battle was when it was bogged down in Takalamakan (which makes sense given its archetype), this was a machine with a much larger sample size that didn't use it for much of it, likely because it relied more on its mobility than its defences and hence focused its particle resources on that.

To me this suggests two things. It does suggest that the GN Arms can't use the GN Field so free and easily, likely because it's particle reserves doesn't accommodate a lot of its usage (further hampered by the lack of a GN Drive), especially when it's solo and Condenser technology is inferior than what it would be in S2. But it also suggests to me that the possibility of using it solo still exists solely on the fact it it has those generators, even of we have particle count and economic issues. The Kyrios example is also interesting because I recalled that it used it in some form in re-entry in S102 though it had been awhile since I've seen the scene. 

If that's true, it does suggest that even if a machine like the GN Arms does not use GN Field frequently, it can still use it for re-entry purposes  it needs to or in very rare dire combat situations where it doesn't have a choice. I will admit though that the lack of a GN Drive does make the usage far more dire for GN Arms than it did for Kyrios. But if the particle reserves are big enough than really emergency usage still shouldnt be a problem, at the very least for non combat re-entry.

If what Taikage said about cockpit switching is true, then what Lasse said about testing the re-entry ability of the GN Arms makes a bit more sense even though he was in the AC'a cockpit when he said it (we can take the statement at face value better than before at least). If we continue to go with the null hypothesis that GN Fields are required for re-entry, then it strengthenes the suggestion that the GN Arms can at least use it alone for re-entry albeit with the pilot still have to be watchful of reserves and such. That doesn't necessarily mean that is the machine's primary purpose though. I also don't think it can escape the atmosphere either like Gust and the AC could. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 04:32, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Okay guys, I don't know which version you guys have, but I checked the official released version of season 1 00 Gundam, episode 22. Around 12 mins and 12 secs into the episode, Lasse volunteers to take Lockon's place when Setsuna decided to make his personal investigation towards Earth while being hunted down by UN Forces. Lasse says "...The Assault Container has atmospheric escape capabilities. This will also give me the chance to do more performance testing on the GN Arms." A few minutes later Feldt gives Lasse the "all green" to launch and the duo launches and drops into Earth (all on video!). This clip alone is enough to suggest that Lasse wants to give GN Arms a "shakedown" since it's still a newly built prototype combat system, but he wasn't able to do so until the AC was destroyed and the duo fought in MA mode. I replayed Exia Vs Throne Zwei and Lasse was piloting from the AC the entire time and not once did he switch over to the GN Arms until later. I also theorized the main reason why it can't utilize a GN Field in GN Arms Mode is due to the fact it doesn't have a GN Drive connected and it would be a severe particle drain as those things have high particle requirements. So what do you guys think now?

Taikage (talk) 04:54, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I do think it weakens the GN Arms can use GN Field position a bit but I still think it can potentially use it just because I believe Condensers play an important role because it provides a lot of immediate particles for use (I mainly got this impression from Virtue). Particle stream is important I believe in how much the pilot can spam it, but Im of the opinion that the lack of a stream still would not make the ability unusable but it would make it far more unfavorable as an ability to use because of how expensive it is. I still think the main criteria of its usability would be because it has the generators in the first place.

I will also say that it really weakens the idea that it can use it for re-entry though, mainly because Im not sure how long the re-entry would take and whether it had enough juice to use it for that long. I believe Lasse's statement in the unofficial subs statement does give a strong backing to the GN Arms being able to use the Field for re-entry but without it I'm not sure whether it might have enough juice to do so though it's "possible" since we dont have precise data. But it's still something I don't feel strongly about.

In short, I believe it "can" be used if the pilot wants it and that its definitely within the realm of possbility given what we've seen but it's not really a strategic ability or something with good economics. Certainly not used to go directly into fire like GN Armor E and D did and use it in succession to take on fire a lot of times.

(editing typos on a phone is such a pain) -SuperSonicSP (talk) 05:26, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Well we can't use entirely rely on unofficial subs. Sometimes fan-subs aren't entirely accurate nor reliable. We always respected what's the official release. If necessary, I'm patient enough to get someone who understands Japanese to make it definitive. However, you make a valid argument, so I'll work around it.

Taikage (talk) 07:02, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, I lifted the edit, so please correct anything you feel needs fixing. I'm not really done with it yet, but I'm busy with other things in life and don't have the time to finish this until a later time. Until then, Merry Christmas and hope you guys have a good 2013!

Taikage (talk) 10:43, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

(I wrote this almost 12 hours ago but did not have Internet to post of; oh and Merry Christmas everyone)

We're in agreement about the official and unofficial subs thing. If the official subs says something that differs from the unofficial ones, I would tend to want to priotize that (offcial dubs are different though, I trust them less than official subs since sometimes scripts are just modded different). I was merely saying that the loss of the "Lasse was testing for atmospheric entry" line kinda weakens the idea that the GN Arms by its own would use its Field for solo re-entry, which I believe is the case if the official subs didn't mention that. I still think its possible though, just unlikely to be used in that manner without the line that was referenced in the unofficial subs.

00 Gundam presents another interesting scenario though. The HG manual says that it can generate a GN Field but doesn't go into details about what type of field it is (we've only seen it do the partial one). Most of the time, that usually refers to the full spherical version though not necessarily so . The 0 Raiser doesn't have GN Field in its armaments list though and we haven't seen it do it if I recall correctly, which suggests that the field generators are on 00 Gundam itself.  - 20:34, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to rename this as simply GNR-001 GN Arms then split the GN Armor as separate article. This is mostly thank to the fact that there's little material for mode D.--My girlfriend is a loli. 16:19, July 4, 2017 (UTC)